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	<title>Comments on: Carbon Rush to Copenhagen: Seizing the Deal of the Century</title>
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	<description>Amazing Breakthroughs, Conversations, and Discoveries for Everyone</description>
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		<title>By: Microwave Cooks Our Ionosphere: Missing from All Climate Debates, Science &#38; Conferences &#124; The Ruthless Truth blog</title>
		<link>http://itsrainmakingtime.com/2009/copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Microwave Cooks Our Ionosphere: Missing from All Climate Debates, Science &#38; Conferences &#124; The Ruthless Truth blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 22:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] has raised these issues in the context of climate justice, debate, law, industry, science and the Copenhagen Climate Conference. This marvelous earth is not &quot;their&quot; secret lab for &quot;their&quot; experiments. We [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has raised these issues in the context of climate justice, debate, law, industry, science and the Copenhagen Climate Conference. This marvelous earth is not &quot;their&quot; secret lab for &quot;their&quot; experiments. We [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jujjja</title>
		<link>http://itsrainmakingtime.com/2009/copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>jujjja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 07:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsrainmakingtime.com/wordpress/?p=312#comment-37</guid>
		<description>I want to quote your post in my blog. It can?
And you et an account on Twitter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to quote your post in my blog. It can?<br />
And you et an account on Twitter?</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Greenhouse</title>
		<link>http://itsrainmakingtime.com/2009/copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Greenhouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsrainmakingtime.com/wordpress/?p=312#comment-13</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your comment. I have written a very long and clear statement as to where I stand about the entire matter, the details of which you have not responded to in your reply. I do not trust nor do I have to trust the IPCC and those associated with their reports. As for carbon dioxide, I have just done a show on the subject. I am comfortable what I covered about it. Please acquaint yourself with the treaty since that is where the action is and will be. I will continue to do the same and suggest that action to everyone who cares about the subject. 

Feel free to tune into my shows on other forms of weather and climate impacts such as microwave radiation which blows massive holes in our ionisphere, the blowing up of 2 satellites by foreign military operations, whose materials and particulates have fallen to earth like plutonium and uranium, the aerosol spraying of our skies on a continual basis all over the world which are visible to hundreds and thousands of people all over the world dumping barium and other toxic substances into our atmosphere and then let&#039;s discuss the entire matter from soup to nuts. 

As long as entire series of toxic and ongoing virelent polluting and destructive activity is going on that is NEVER mentioned as a part of the weather and climate mix, I see no need to battle the politics of the current stage because all of it is skewed and has been infiltrated by people who finance all sides of the conflict.  

Until we have thorough and honest reporting about these matters in a way that the public can clearly understand and until the Sun actually becomes an important part of Overall Climate Dialogue ie... how Sunspots and their activity work to impact climate and weather, as far as I am concerned the entire ground is rigged and deeply polluted for any type of dialogue that will not only matter but for a clear understanding of what is really going on. 

We impact our world. There is no question about that. The question is; in what ways, to what degrees and how the total overall mix of what is actually happening is integrated as key factors in impacting climate both on a cooling and a warming basis. 

Please feel free to tune into the upcoming shows related to this material that I am mentioning and then, when more people can begin to separate the wheat from the chaff on a whole -systems level and you are personally in full possession of the additional body of information that is not being covered in this entire stage of Climate dialogue, then, and only then am I ready to have a debate with anyone in the world about Climate and then and only then will my perspective on the entire matter be meaningful. 

I appreciate you taking your time to write. I really do. By the way, I love Vedanta  Shiva and her broad- based global work on behalf of people all over the world. I love her work and see that it is critical that it be known all over the world. She is one of my favorite people on earth. I look forward to meeting her one day soon and giving many hours of broadcasting access and time to her work and concerns. 

You may also want to tune into an older show I did with Dr. Yunus before he got the Nobel. As for Naomi Klein, I appreciate her work immensely. She is a bright and captivating speaker and writer with so much to teach us all. Thanks for all of your input and for now, let us table this part of the dialogue until these next few segments are completed, so that a whole -systems dialogue with critical missing key factors and new knowledge can bring illumination to the PUZZLE which has so many missing pieces. Thank you for caring and for taking your time to write. I look forward to continued exploration, discovery and the adventures ahead of bringing solutions and remarkable discoveries to the world on a whole-systems level. I also look forward to being able to deliver a wide range of new programming to humanity and to join with others to make sure that a new universe of content finally makes the air waves. It&#039;s Rainmaking Time!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comment. I have written a very long and clear statement as to where I stand about the entire matter, the details of which you have not responded to in your reply. I do not trust nor do I have to trust the IPCC and those associated with their reports. As for carbon dioxide, I have just done a show on the subject. I am comfortable what I covered about it. Please acquaint yourself with the treaty since that is where the action is and will be. I will continue to do the same and suggest that action to everyone who cares about the subject. </p>
<p>Feel free to tune into my shows on other forms of weather and climate impacts such as microwave radiation which blows massive holes in our ionisphere, the blowing up of 2 satellites by foreign military operations, whose materials and particulates have fallen to earth like plutonium and uranium, the aerosol spraying of our skies on a continual basis all over the world which are visible to hundreds and thousands of people all over the world dumping barium and other toxic substances into our atmosphere and then let&#8217;s discuss the entire matter from soup to nuts. </p>
<p>As long as entire series of toxic and ongoing virelent polluting and destructive activity is going on that is NEVER mentioned as a part of the weather and climate mix, I see no need to battle the politics of the current stage because all of it is skewed and has been infiltrated by people who finance all sides of the conflict.  </p>
<p>Until we have thorough and honest reporting about these matters in a way that the public can clearly understand and until the Sun actually becomes an important part of Overall Climate Dialogue ie&#8230; how Sunspots and their activity work to impact climate and weather, as far as I am concerned the entire ground is rigged and deeply polluted for any type of dialogue that will not only matter but for a clear understanding of what is really going on. </p>
<p>We impact our world. There is no question about that. The question is; in what ways, to what degrees and how the total overall mix of what is actually happening is integrated as key factors in impacting climate both on a cooling and a warming basis. </p>
<p>Please feel free to tune into the upcoming shows related to this material that I am mentioning and then, when more people can begin to separate the wheat from the chaff on a whole -systems level and you are personally in full possession of the additional body of information that is not being covered in this entire stage of Climate dialogue, then, and only then am I ready to have a debate with anyone in the world about Climate and then and only then will my perspective on the entire matter be meaningful. </p>
<p>I appreciate you taking your time to write. I really do. By the way, I love Vedanta  Shiva and her broad- based global work on behalf of people all over the world. I love her work and see that it is critical that it be known all over the world. She is one of my favorite people on earth. I look forward to meeting her one day soon and giving many hours of broadcasting access and time to her work and concerns. </p>
<p>You may also want to tune into an older show I did with Dr. Yunus before he got the Nobel. As for Naomi Klein, I appreciate her work immensely. She is a bright and captivating speaker and writer with so much to teach us all. Thanks for all of your input and for now, let us table this part of the dialogue until these next few segments are completed, so that a whole -systems dialogue with critical missing key factors and new knowledge can bring illumination to the PUZZLE which has so many missing pieces. Thank you for caring and for taking your time to write. I look forward to continued exploration, discovery and the adventures ahead of bringing solutions and remarkable discoveries to the world on a whole-systems level. I also look forward to being able to deliver a wide range of new programming to humanity and to join with others to make sure that a new universe of content finally makes the air waves. It&#8217;s Rainmaking Time!</p>
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		<title>By: jeff aitken</title>
		<link>http://itsrainmakingtime.com/2009/copenhagen/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>jeff aitken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 01:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://itsrainmakingtime.com/wordpress/?p=312#comment-12</guid>
		<description>Thanks Kim. I do want to engage in this inquiry in a way that gets at the truth as far as possible. And try to be warm, friendly and with great integrity in my communication.

For the science of climate I have been relying on experts who publish on the Real Climate blog, and Hansen and Lovelock et al. I see (and therefore assume) that you are relying on experts such as Dr. Idso, Dr. Soon, and Dr. Legate.

When I observe that Real Climate experts are able to respond to the papers of Drs. Idso, Soon, and Legate with what appear to be sensible rebuttal arguments, all documented by link on the site, I find myself not sharing a sense of a one-sided, vicious, slanderous enterprise. I also have observed substantial viciousness, duplicity, etc on the part of those opposing the Real Climate and IPCC scientists, so I don&#039;t find that a one-sided phenomenon.

Because I honor the integrity with which you pursue your inquiry, I wish to ask if you have read Real Climate and followed the arguments presented there. For me it&#039;s an attempt to learn whether your characterizations of the debate are based on believing Drs. Idso, Soon and Legate&#039;s perspective, or seeing these other ones and making a judgment from there? Or, perhaps, are you reading the papers themselves to inform your judgments? I confess I have only read one or two, so I have relied on these experts.

On the question of the politics:

i definitely agree that wealthy and powerful institutions always do their best to increase their wealth and power. No doubt they are doing so as part of a global treaty and institution around climate and CO2. i think that concerns around this are quite justified.

where i disagree is that i don&#039;t see the &#039;real climate&#039; and IPCC scientists as nefarious and involved in a conspiracy.

on the contrary, i see evidence that opposing scientists are associated with Exxon and the fossil fuel industry, which i assume affects their perspective.

however, for me it&#039;s not an argument about the science of climate and the need for global response, but rather about global institutions of power and how they use crises to manipulate publics and governments. Naomi Klein has a powerful book about this as you know.

i&#039;d like to hear more details about the emerging industrial complex - your passion about what&#039;s happening is palpable, yet i&#039;m not willing to rely on the scientific experts you cite, so i need something else. is your concern a narrow one, like the difference between a cap/trade system and a carbon tax system? or a broader one, that carbon need not be regulated or taxed in the way that cfc&#039;s and sulfur have been?

instead i stand with the grassroots activists like Vendana Shiva, whose speech at Copenhagen was quite moving to me, and the president of the Maldives, and Bill McKibben; and Amory Lovins and Paul Hawken, who first raised the carbon tax notion to my attention in the 1990s. their responses to the observable local effects of climate change and the IPCC reports are based on local empowerment and solutions in a global context. i do find them aligned with Dr. Yunus and no doubt Ms. Roddick.

i also believe that all power rests ultimately with the people, and any global institution of oppression can be dismantled.

Alan AtKisson&#039;s recent paper focusing on investing in widespread renewables as a strategy for local empowerment and climate stability is the paper that most excites me personally.

i look forward to exploring all this with you further.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Kim. I do want to engage in this inquiry in a way that gets at the truth as far as possible. And try to be warm, friendly and with great integrity in my communication.</p>
<p>For the science of climate I have been relying on experts who publish on the Real Climate blog, and Hansen and Lovelock et al. I see (and therefore assume) that you are relying on experts such as Dr. Idso, Dr. Soon, and Dr. Legate.</p>
<p>When I observe that Real Climate experts are able to respond to the papers of Drs. Idso, Soon, and Legate with what appear to be sensible rebuttal arguments, all documented by link on the site, I find myself not sharing a sense of a one-sided, vicious, slanderous enterprise. I also have observed substantial viciousness, duplicity, etc on the part of those opposing the Real Climate and IPCC scientists, so I don&#8217;t find that a one-sided phenomenon.</p>
<p>Because I honor the integrity with which you pursue your inquiry, I wish to ask if you have read Real Climate and followed the arguments presented there. For me it&#8217;s an attempt to learn whether your characterizations of the debate are based on believing Drs. Idso, Soon and Legate&#8217;s perspective, or seeing these other ones and making a judgment from there? Or, perhaps, are you reading the papers themselves to inform your judgments? I confess I have only read one or two, so I have relied on these experts.</p>
<p>On the question of the politics:</p>
<p>i definitely agree that wealthy and powerful institutions always do their best to increase their wealth and power. No doubt they are doing so as part of a global treaty and institution around climate and CO2. i think that concerns around this are quite justified.</p>
<p>where i disagree is that i don&#8217;t see the &#8216;real climate&#8217; and IPCC scientists as nefarious and involved in a conspiracy.</p>
<p>on the contrary, i see evidence that opposing scientists are associated with Exxon and the fossil fuel industry, which i assume affects their perspective.</p>
<p>however, for me it&#8217;s not an argument about the science of climate and the need for global response, but rather about global institutions of power and how they use crises to manipulate publics and governments. Naomi Klein has a powerful book about this as you know.</p>
<p>i&#8217;d like to hear more details about the emerging industrial complex &#8211; your passion about what&#8217;s happening is palpable, yet i&#8217;m not willing to rely on the scientific experts you cite, so i need something else. is your concern a narrow one, like the difference between a cap/trade system and a carbon tax system? or a broader one, that carbon need not be regulated or taxed in the way that cfc&#8217;s and sulfur have been?</p>
<p>instead i stand with the grassroots activists like Vendana Shiva, whose speech at Copenhagen was quite moving to me, and the president of the Maldives, and Bill McKibben; and Amory Lovins and Paul Hawken, who first raised the carbon tax notion to my attention in the 1990s. their responses to the observable local effects of climate change and the IPCC reports are based on local empowerment and solutions in a global context. i do find them aligned with Dr. Yunus and no doubt Ms. Roddick.</p>
<p>i also believe that all power rests ultimately with the people, and any global institution of oppression can be dismantled.</p>
<p>Alan AtKisson&#8217;s recent paper focusing on investing in widespread renewables as a strategy for local empowerment and climate stability is the paper that most excites me personally.</p>
<p>i look forward to exploring all this with you further.</p>
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